We actually lived through meeting my husbands family for the first time last week at my husband's cousins wedding. Yes, that's right, we survived it. Yes, we had our doubts. In the end, I'm still glad we went.
On the day we flew out, we experienced VERY HEAVY DELAYS due to inclement weather. Now, for those of you who have flown with a 4 year old (or any small child for that matter), you know that being delayed in an airport for 13 hours is pure HELL! Our connection was in Atlanta, which is a HUGE airport and there were so many people with delayed flights that there were no seats available and you could hardly even walk without constantly bumping into someone. We were stressed, tired and hungry. Our daughter had an upset stomach from the stress, all over her clothing. Thank goodness I had the presence of mind to pack extra clothing for her in the carry-on as well as wet wipes! Poor thing. We were so exhausted that my daughter and I used our carry-ons as pillows and laid down on the airport floor to sleep. One older gentleman told my husband that he had never seen a pregnant lady sleeping in the floor with her child in an airport in all his years of flying. He even offered me his seat, what a sweet man. I was so exhausted I couldn't even sit up in a chair and preferred the floor!
We finally reached our destination 14 hours later than we were originally supposed to. The airline (I won't say which one) lost our check-in luggage and we were without our things for another 15 hours. Therefore, we missed the grah shanti and mehendi that day as a result. It was probably best that things worked out that way since the grah shanti was in the family home and would have been even more awkward being in such close quarters with PIMIL for the first meeting. We slept most of the day and then traveled into a big desi shopping area of the city. We had masala dosa (my FAVORITE!), pav bhaji, and gulab jamun, purchased saree's, anarkali's, sherwani's and jewelry while we were there! It was a nice way to unwind from the traumatic trip there.
The wedding ceremony was at 9am the next morning. We purposely arrived a little late so that everyone could get calmed and settled before we came in. Our daughter was so excited and my FIL kept calling asking when we were coming. He met us at the door of the beautiful, HUGE white mandir (temple). The first thing he did was hug me and kiss me on the cheek and then take A. from my arms and hug and kiss her as well. The two of them were inseparable the entire weekend. He told me outside the mandir doors, with tears in his eyes, how thankful he was that I had decided to come and how proud he was of me, that I looked beautiful in my anarkali dress, 22k gold, mangalsutra and bindi. PIMIL's older brother also met us at the door and he was such a kind, sweet uncle. They then ushered us inside the mandir where we were swarmed by all my husband's aunts, uncles, cousins and family friends. Well, all except for PIMIL and my husbands sister. Yes, they were not so anxious to meet us. We were both actually surprised by his sisters reaction, she has been mostly supportive (at least over the phone) and now face to face was standing by Mommy Dearest. Interesting....
Then, my FIL (notice I've decided to no longer call him PAFIL at this point, he's been upgraded ;-) put his arms around PIMIL (notice this acronym hasn't changed ;-) and ushered her over to us. She stood there with a stern, sour look on her face and just looked at me. I really don't know what came over me (maybe pregnancy?) but I leaned down, since I'm about 12 inches taller than her, and actually hugged her. Yeah, I really don't know why I did that. She just stood there stiff as a board. All of PIMIL's brothers and sisters were coming up to me and telling me how happy they were to see me there and not to worry about PIMIL. Several of them seemed so concerned that I would think they were all nuts like her. One of his uncles said "We are not like that, OK. We don't care what color you are, we are accepting. We don't know what her problem is, she's just crazy." See, there you go, I'm not the only person who thinks she's crazy! They doted over our beautiful daughter and expressed their sadness that they had not known about her until now. Two of my husbands uncles were so upset they had tears running down their cheeks. I heard them tell my husband (in English-I think so I could hear the conversation) that he had always been their favorite nephew and that they were so hurt that he didn't feel comfortable telling them about what his mother was doing. My husband reiterated that she had forbidden any family to know about his wife or his daughter. They told him that they are also his family, never to forget that and that any problems he is having in the future they want him to feel comfortable sharing it with them, that they could have helped with this situation years ago. At the reception, my husband stood next to his mother and tried to hold her hand but she jerked it away. She also never spoke to him the whole time.
Before I go any further here, I would just like to tell you, all my readers, that you cannot know how much it meant to me to see that this wonderful boy that I fell in love with so many years ago, this absolutely wonderful husband of mine does actually come from a nice family. Unfortunately, the closest family members that I will ever be dealing with are his father, who does tend to be passive-aggressive and lets PIMIL wear the pants and control everything, but is a very nice, loving man. Then PIMIL, who is just completely looney-tunes. And there is my sister-in-law, who seems to be very much like her mother. She actually called the bride days before the wedding complaining that she didn't think it was right for them to invite us to the wedding without FIL and PIMIL's permission. Sounds like the apple didn't fall far from the tree there....
After the wedding we were treated to the most wonderful lunch at the temple. Then, we were invited by my husbands uncle to come back to their house for the evening with the rest of the family for pizza and snacks. Before arriving my husband says to me "Uncle and Auntie have a pretty big house, so stay close or you might get lost". I just thought he was joking until we pulled onto the property and I started laughing. I said "Is this a joke?" I lost count once inside but it was like a 20 bedroom mansion! This was no "house"! At that point I felt a little out of place but they quickly put me at ease once inside because they were very dear, sweet people. The other aunts and uncles also took PIMIL aside in the conference room of the home and talked to her about her behavior and how she had handled the situation poorly. Not sure it really helped, she never spoke to me the entire weekend and sat at every function with her arms crossed and a pout on her face like a 2 year old.
Once we were leaving the mansion everyone came to the door to see us off and our daughter ran up to my FIL and gave him a great big hug. Then she turns to my husband and says, "Daddy, where is your Mommy?". My husband points to her in the crowd and A. takes off running up to her and gives her a HUGE hug around her neck. That was pretty much the only time I ever saw a smile on PIMIL's face. And that's when things started to change towards our daughter. The next day at the reception PIMIL was getting A. mango lassi and pani puri and being very sweet to her. I must say I was happy to see that, even though I am still very cautious.
Aunts and Uncles were very upset to find out that we were staying in a hotel instead of with other family members so the last night of the trip we stayed at my husband's Aunt and Uncle's home. This is so unlike American families (at least mine). Staying in a hotel while attending a wedding is normal, but in the Indian culture it is offensive. I worried about it, but I'm so glad we stayed with them that last night. His Aunt fed us like we were kings, took care of us, and then sent us off to the airport with more nuts, dried fruits and snacks than I could possibly pack into my Vera Bradley. I really loved his family. When we left his uncle cried when hugging my husband. I actually saw a tear on my husbands cheek, too. I think they just felt so bad for him with what we had been through and hadn't seen him in about 6 years. We promised we would visit again soon.
The aunt's and uncle's gave us a large sum of monetary gifts, a very large Toys-R-Us gift card for A. as well as a beautiful necklace with her initial on it, 6 Indian dresses, and enough love to last us a lifetime.
The flight back home was all on schedule and much more enjoyable. My husband thanked me for being brave and deciding to go to the wedding. He told me he knew how much it took out of me to make the trip being pregnant and how stressful it was to meet everyone all at one time. He told me how much it meant to him that I was willing to give the rest of the family a chance after everything that has happened with his mother. I appreciated that. I knew that I had to give it a chance and since they extended the invitation, what would it hurt to accept, right? The love we received from his extended family helped mend the pain from years of abuse from PIMIL.
Oh....and the bride truly was the epitome of an Indian Princess Bride. I would also like to point out that the mother of the bride (PIMIL's sister) was also sitting very stern faced during the wedding ceremony. I later found out this was because the bride had a love marriage...yes, evidence of desi parental failure, HAHAHA! And not only that....the groom was South Indian! Oh no! What could be worse?.....CAUCASIAN maybe!!! I just had to add that in there didn't I? Yes folks, that's right, love marriage to a meat-eating South Indian. Who cares what you eat or how dark or light your skin is? Come on people, we have wars, disease, famine in this world...real issues. Will some Indians ever get past prejudices? Just for the record, I think my Gujarati husband is very handsome. Yes, he is light skinned (still darker than me of course), that never mattered to me. Ever. And also, for the record, I thought the groom and his meat-eating South Indian family and friends were very, very beautiful people. More so than my husbands family, even though I thought my husbands family were very nice. It's just funny to me because the Northern people think that they are more beautiful because they are "lighter skinned" than the Southern people. Honestly, in most instances I didn't really see where they were that much lighter at all but maybe I just don't have a clue. I know I'm going to get lots of backlash on that one but you know, some things just really need to be said. SOUTH INDIANS YOU ARE BEAUTIFUL PEOPLE! Don't let anyone make you think any different.
That's all I have to say about that....at this time ;-)
About Me
- The Milky Chai Life
- This blog is written about my Indian/American culture-blended life. I am the American part of the equation and my darling hubby (DH)is the Indian (American born) part. We have two amazing and beautiful daughters who keep us constantly entertained and busy. I hope to post here about the things that I love; food, family, health, all things beautiful in this life and even a few things that are not so wonderful, like my in-laws. I refer to them as PIMIL (Psychotic Indian Mother-In-Law) and PAFIL (Passive Agressive Father-In-Law) here. There may even be an occasional posting from my DH here. Enjoy! You may also email me at themilkychailife@gmail.com
42 comments:
Hi ..
Just wanted to say I have been reading your blog for past few weeks.
I really like your honest and straightforward observations.I am genuinely happy to know you were received with so much love by your husband's extended family.One reason why your MIL finds it so difficult to accept you is that you are your husband's choice and she had no say in that decision. Your colour, race etc are secondary reasons.Even if you were Indian she would still give you a hard time.Most indian moms of the past generation are that way.
Now to coming to the last part of your post. I am a south indian from Karnataka. North Indians do think they are light skinned and don't know that there many light skinned and light eyed people in the south. I myself have been mistaken for a european many times by non indians because my skin colour is lighter than skin colour of light skinned indians. Both my parents are south indians from Karnataka.Some north indians just assume on meeting me that I must be a south india. Yes it is not enough that I am an Indian. They have to quickly place me in region or state in India. On finding that I am a south indian they are taken a back and then go into a thorough back ground check asking me where my forefathers were from to confirm that I am indeed a south indian. Yes my word is not enough. It is really sad and such prejudices are ingrained in India for generations.
Beauty in India for some reason is related to Skin Colour.Sad but true.So many bright young women are made to feel terrible about the way they look just because of their skin colour.I am not sure how this mind set will change. I hope it does with globalization.
---
Gayathri :)
Hi Anonymous! Thank you for commenting here. Since PIMIL has always proclaimed that I am not Indian, I've always assumed that is really the reason. I think you do have a point, she wanted to choose herself. Knowing her now, I think even if she had chosen she would have not treated her DIL properly. Let's just say she has some issues...
On the South/North thing, it really is rediculous. It's sad that India chooses to stay so segregated. There are good and even some bad things that come with globalization but I do hope for India that the prejudices can be overcome. Holding on to the culture, but eliminating the prejudices would be wonderful. Not sure if we'll see that in our lifetime. It's funny, for the first time in my life it is a bad thing to be white!
Take care!
Hey being in the company of the following South Indians, Bigoted north Indian can go fly a freaking kite for all I care.
- Aishwarya Rai
- Rekha
- Hema Mailini
- Tabu
- Sri Devi
- Vidya Balan
Who do they have from the north that is not half european. Kareena Kapoor? Meah!
LOL :)
But then not all north Indians are bad. Its just that some of them are the equivalent of the trailer trash of India.
Hi Milky Chai.
Been reading your blog and my heart goes out to ya'll.
Hang in there. :)
This marriage episode reads like a Bollgood movie. Hee hee!
Manny
Wow, a crappy start to the trip, but sounds like a wonderful ending. Glad that it went better than expected.
Greetings to you!
I have just started reading your blog and getting to know your story, and I have to say that you are very brave. I cannot begin to imagine what it must be like to have a MIL like this, but I send much peace and joy your way. I hope for the best that she may someday start to turn around in big ways.
Hello Manny! Thanks for commenting here. You know, I almost mentioned in that blog post that Aishwarya Rai was from South but for some reason I left that out. Yes, I've heard these comments for years and it truly disturbs me because there is no logical basis for the claims, just ignorant bigotry really. Bigotry is seen all over the world in some presence or another, but I'm surprised by how often I hear this North better/South lesser claim among Indians. The US largly overcame nationwide bigotry issues in the last 50 years, hopefully I will see this in my lifetime for India as well. It really broke my heart for the grooms family because I really didn't see many of the bride's family interacting with or speaking to the groom's family. I figured when I attended the wedding that is how they would all treat me, but luckily I was wrong (except for PIMIL and SIL of course). It was just as well that those two ignored me actually, I think I was far more comfortable with that than dealing with the ranting drama. Yes, this a real Bollygood story isn't it? It's just craziness. My husband encouraged me to blog about it a couple of years ago and I finally got up the courage to tell the story earlier this year. I've never heard of anything like this in my lifetime, until I started blogging about it and now I get messages from people all over the world who are in similar situations. But then, all of our friends who are Americans married to desi's have positive stories so in a way it's been nice to see that I'm not the only person in the world going through this Bollygood drama ;-)
Take care!
@honeybeecooksjackfruit:
Me too! I can't tell you how glad I was to know the rest of his family were sweet people!(with the exception of not interacting with the groom's family)
@Aman:
Thanks for commenting here! And thank you so much for the well wishes! I didn't feel very brave at the time but now that I look back it was really a big step for me to walk into something not knowing the outcome. For my husbands sake, it would be nice if his mother could get some help and be a normal member of our family. As long as it is good for me to do so, I will continue to blog about our story. We'll see where this goes. This year has been the year for great changes in our situation with his family so who knows where we'll go from here.
Take care!
Milky chai maybe you should stop judging so much. I am sorry your experience with your mother in law was so bad, but do not think you are a martyr or that your husbands family is representative of all Indians.
In mainstream Hinduism, eating meat is a sin and officially banned for upper castes, except for the soldier castes who have to be immunised to blood.
In Gujurat, there is a lot of Jain influence which is even more strongly vegetarian.
In general, you can figure out that someone is upper caste if they are vegetarian and the converse is also true
This leads to the first redline against non-vegetarians.
In this case, much more than color prejudice against South Indians is the caste factor against non-vegetarians.
A Caucasian groom would be considered worse than a Hindu meat-eater only due to diet and religion factors.
Once these barriers are crossed they are considered upper caste, due to the North Indian color fetish and thats why I was certain that you would be not just accepted but actually welcomed by the extended family.
Regarding parental failure
From a very early age, each child is taught about the redlines and if a child crosses the redline, it is a severe loss of face for the parent who has failed to teach it properly
Prejudice works both ways in India. South Indians consider themselves far more intelligent than North Indians, who are considered dumb.
Most Indian Science Nobels and Rocket Scientists are South Indians.
There is this Bollywhat.com site for westerners who are into Bollywood or Indian movies in general.
Many of these gories are discovering South Indian movies. I am pretty sure it must really chaff some of these North Indian trash's butts that these gories are endeared to Machete wielding Mustache porting, Lungi/Doti wearing South Indian heroes.
LOL
http://www.bollywhat-forum.com/index.php?board=10.0
@Anonymous: I definitely don't think that my husbands family behavior is representative of all Indians. I am not trying to objectify anyone here. I have plenty of North Indian friends as well. But even they have told me that while they don't themselves feel that way, many of their family members do. I also don't consider myself a martyr but I do feel that since this is my blog, I can call it as I see it and I can tell you that I see a lot of issues that need to be addressed, like bigotry. It is a stain on the Indian culture in my opinion. No culture is perfect, least of all the West, but I'm glad we largely don't have those caste or skin color fetishes here in the States. Hence, the reason why I've been so shocked at learning these very real, in-your-face problems since meeting my darling hubby. Those issues are a new experience for me and therefore I am happy to blog about it. Not everyone needs to agree with me...
The reality is, India too has its share of trailer trash. North India has loads of them. In North India, how wealth you are has nothing to do with being trash. Monied trash is very common in the north
:)
@barani: You always bring out points that I didn't realize...like South Indians feeling they are smarter than North Indians. We also have something similar here in the States, where Northerners think that all Southerners are dumb, uneducated slow-takers with accents. That's hardly the case but I think that mentality is also starting to disappear here in the US.
Even though I am vegetarian, I always think it is so interesting the distinction btw meat-eaters and vegetarians in India. My husbands family had no idea that I was a vegetarian non-Christian/Muslum/Jew prior to meeting me, yet they still accepted me, for the most part. I'm sure it didn't hurt that I am vegetarian though.
I also did not realize that eating meat is officially banned for upper caste people. What happnes when Brahmins willfully eat meat in India? I had a Brahmin friend who always ate meat here in the states, his family never said anything to him about it.
@Manny:
See, I just learned something new. I didn't even realize there was a difference in Bollywood films until you said "South Indian movies". Interesting...
Hahahaha, well, I would just like to say that I do not have a preference for North India over South India in any way or vice versa, but hope someday that the segregation/bigotry ends. And honestly, I would have never even had a platform on the issue had I not personally been treated poorly by my husbands family because of being Caucasian. For the first time in my life it is a bad thing to be white!
"For the first time in my life it is a bad thing to be white!"
You know some folks give desis grief about caste system a tad too much. (I don't mean you). PArticularly the evangelical types. I mean although the caste system is nothing to crow about, it never ever went down as bad as slavery or lynchings or ethnic cleansing. But the Christian evangelicals like to use "the caste" as a reason for them to target Hindus for conversion as though if the caste thingi was not there they would leave the Hindus alone (Check that Buddhists are also targeted for conversion although they do not have a caste system).
The thing is...some of the upper caste folks would treat all meat eaters including white christians no different from untouchables. When any white person enters an orthodox Hindu homes, they would clean the house immediately after you leave just like they would an untouchable. Although thats not common these days, I would not be surprised if I see that in happening in some homes in India. Personally I could care less if they clean their homes. Its like they are lynching me or enslaving me although I may feel offended. Its a crime of giving slight. nothing more really. These upper caste people for the most part want to be left alone with their own community not unlike the Amish community here.
Brahmins are not banned from eating meat. Some Bahamians do indeed eat meat. Hinduism is not an institutional religion where there is a particular institution that issue a fatwa. Its just frowned uppon within the community.
BTW...Christians in India generally have their caste thingi too. Dalit Christians fight with upper caste christians too. :)
@Manny:
Yes, I am not a big fan of the evangelicals trying to convert people. I know they have their reasons and think they are saving the world but I hate it. I had no idea Christians in India have a caste system! Yes, I harp on the caste system but I think it does more harm than good really. Hasn't it officially been banned in India? Do people still oberve it otherwise?
Yeah officially caste based anything is unlawful. But thats like banning racism. Its slowly becoming passe. but it still exists in some form or the other..but mostly they are benign. Meaning. Yeah...when it comes to arranged marriages people tend to marry within their own caste system. Thats not unlike people here marrying within their own racial sub culture. Chinese Americans, Hispanics, Korean Americans, African Americans, Whites, Desi Americans, etc etc...
But it work places and university admissions etc, its so favorable to be a backward castes that many upper castes are cheating and trying to rebranding themselves as backward caste to for government entitlement benefits like Quota system. 89% of government jobs and professional school admissions are reserved for backward castes into perpetuity. Reverse discrimination is the order in the far left socialist government of India.
I don't understand why you are letting this Mannyish fellow badmouth north Indians so much on your blog when your husband is a north Indian???
@Anonymous: I'm not intending to encourage "bad mouthing" of North Indians here, I have stated have no preference for one or the other. I love my darling hubby and all my North Indian friends, who happen to not be prejudice. It is interesting to me the points of view that people have, and why they have those points of view. I'm not condoning calling anyone "trash butts", I hope people will keep it clean here.
Oui Anonymous!
I am not saying all north Indians are trash. I have north Indians in my own family. And fortunately they are the class north Indians. If a North Indian is married to a south Indian, they are usually not trash. Cause It kind of demonstrates they have gone past the skin color and racial prejudices. But you have to be blind to not notice that India (North and South) have their share of trash!
I am just saying that there maybe a tad more in the north is all! You are free to disagree.
But I like north Indians... the classy ones!
;)
So glad that you finally got the love and respect you deserve from your husband's extended family, of course it wasn't from his immediate, but you atleast got a taste of the 'good' part of his family. More than that, your little girl can finally have a relationship with her daddy's family. I do hope that your mother in law's cold heart will eventually change, I'm not holding my breath, but I am still praying for your daughter's sake that it does... because your lil' one could hold resentment and not want a relationship with her grandmother if she doesn't show her own mommy respect and love.
Yay! The PAMIL is not going to change. If everyone acknowledges that she is nuts, at least you know you're not alone. I'm SO happy that you found some loving, accepting, decent people in your husband's family. I'm sure you feel like a great deal of stress has been lifted from you.
Oh, and the person who said you need to "stop judging" has no idea what he (I'm pretty sure it's a "he") is talking about. The downside to blogging about these problems is the occasional insensitive comment.
Glad to hear you had such a great time. Aren't desi weddings amazing?
It is also interesting to observe the regional stereotypes and prejudices that people have about each other...it is my experience also that desis are very forthcoming about their regional stereotypes and about colorism. It is kind of weird to hear all of that stuff as an outsider and a white person.
Some people watch the Bolly movie "Kabhi Kushi Kabhi Gham" and say, its too melodramatic and how Bollywood is hyper emotional!
But it does reflect reality to some extent. No?
:)
@ jnkparmar:
Thank you, and you're right about how our daughter will perceive things. She is already asking a GREAT deal of questions since the wedding. Like, why didn't Daddy's Mommy talk to us, does she not like us, etc. She's brought this situation on herself, but her manner in handling our relationship has certainly revealed a great deal about her, so I am forever cautious.
@ BBBB:
Yes! It was such a relief to know not all of his family members were nuts! And, yes, I still get the "insensitive comments", that's why I now moderate them. I've deleted a number of them. Obviously there are more PIMIL's out there ;-)
@ luckyfatima:
Yes, the wedding was really amazing! And yes, it is really strange being a Westerner to see such open prejudices.
@ Manny:
It is so funny that you mention that film b/c I actually saw that before meeting my husband and thought how completely dramatic that plot was, but when it happened to us I was so shocked that these things really do happen! Incidentally, our daughter loves that film and likes to watch it at least twice a month. Then she walks around singing "Kabhi Kushi Khabi Gham, ah ah ah ah", it really creeps me out! But in another sense maybe it will help her to understand that these kinds of things really do happen, as crazy as it may seem.
I have to say this in defense of the desi prejudices that we have against one another. Although its crude and out in the open. Desis from all of part of India may even trash talk about one another, there has not been any substantial persecution of one another other than some religious riots that happen from time to time that is usually very local.
To my knowledge, there has never been a historical abuse of north Indians towards south Indians or Maharashta people warring with people of Punjab or things of that nature.
We Indians have been abused by outsiders for a 1000 years so generally restrict ourselves to trash talk for the most part.
And you may be even amazed at how desies come together when there is a threat from outside India inspite of our trash talk culture.
Indians are a big ass argumentative family. Its family nevertheless.
:)
Manny
Glad you had good time and there was no high family drama.
@milkychai,
Your husbands extended family is neither nice nor nasty
Let me explain
They are nasty to the meat-eating in-laws ( lower caste ), because the first redline has been violated.
If the second redline, no christian rule had been violated, the entire extended family would have been nasty like PIMIL.
On violation of the third redline, there would likely be an outcasting.
You, are within redlines, and thats why the extended family is nice to you,
PIMIL is crazy because she treats you as if two redlines had been violated.
At this point with the extended family, you hold most of the aces and you have nothing to worry about ( as I have said for months ).
You are veg, not an abrahamist religionist, you have produced children ( one of the main Indian fears of white women is that many of them are non-fertile ). Your kids are brought up with upper caste values. You are light skinned, your kids are light skinned . ( there really is no anti-white prejudice among Indians except for diet and religion ).
The only remaining ace which would be icing on the cake, is if by good fortune, kid-2 or kid-3 is male
( 2 kids are good , 3 even better )
I fully expect the extended family to pay for college for all your 2 - 3 kids, and pay off your college loans
@milkychai, you should use bollywood movies to explain to your daughter about her grandmother. You really cant keep hiding facts from her too long.
Regarding vegetarianism. For Jainism it is compulsory, whereas for upper caste Hindus it is recommended with some loopholes.
The military castes which are also upper castes such as Rajputs, are encouraged to hunt, drink, carouse and eat meat ( minus beef ). Their main deity is durga and their mode of worship is animal sacrifice. The thinking is to get them used to blood.
For Brahmins, there are three levels of brahmins.
At the top level are the vegetarian Brahmin castes.
One rung below are Bengali brahmins who eat fish and even below them are Kashmiri brahmins who eat meat ( ex-beef )
Outside Bengal, Bengali brahmins are not considered 'ritually clean' and not used in brahminical jobs such as priests and cooks.
The kitchen is also the puja room and non-vegetarians entering it, causes ritual pollution. In most typical cases, the mother-in-law is an upper caste vegetarian and would be deeply uncomfortable with a typical meat eating white girl entering it.
If a brahmin from a priestly family or a cook family starts eating meat, he will likely be outcasted.
Among other brahmins, it is considered a vice of the level of smoking, drinking and taking drugs. And if it done with parental approval, will be seen as similar to parental abetment of drinking.
At the time of arranged marriages, the other side investigates for vices in the extended family and this has an impact similar to smoking and drinking, and many prospective matrimonial alliances will be cancelled.
That said, a certain number of brahmins are deracinated wogs or coconuts and they are non-traditional and deliberately flout caste norms of behavior.
I have been allowed to enter the inner sanctum of several Indian Hindu temples, because I am a veg brahmin. If it were known that I was not veg, I would not be let into the inner sanctum.
Even meat eating castes will not hire a brahmin priest or a brahmin cook, who is not veg.
I am posting a short synopsis of the award winning novel 'Samskara', which deals with redlines such as brahmins and meat eating lower castes and muslims.
Samskara is the story of life in an agrahara, a narrow street in which brahmins belonging to the Madhwa communitylive. The agrahara of Samskara is situated in a tiny hamlet called Durvasapura.
Durvasapura and its agrahara are famous in the surrounding area, because of two brahmins who live there. One of them is Praneshacharya and the other one is Naranappa.
Praneshacharya went to Kashi (Benaras), studied there, and returned with the title "Crest-Jewel of Vedic Learning". He is the local guru of all the brahmins.
The other "famous" brahmin who lives in this agrahara is Naranappa. He is brahmin who has actually rejected brahminhood. He has brought home Chandri, a prostitute from Kundapura, a nearby town.
He lives openly with her, drinks alcohol sitting in his front veranda, invites muslims to his house and eats meat with them. He has thrown Saligrama, the holy stone which is believed to represent God Vishnu, into the river, and has spit after it.
Naranappa, with his muslim friends, has caught sacred fish from the temple tank, has cooked them, and eaten them. Other brahmins are aghast at this sacrilegious act.
The brahmins of Durvasapura are afraid and sick of Naranappa. Left to themselves they would gladly tell their guru in Udipi to excommunicate Naranappa and thus get rid of him. But Praneshacharya is against this radical step. He still wants to, hopes to, win Naranappa over, and lead him back to Dharma, the proper path.
"For the first time in my life it is a bad thing to be white!"
Hinduism Today, the most famous Hindu monthly magazine is run by white Hindu swamis from Hawaii.
These white Hindu swamis have been accepted as legit by mainstream Hindus for the last several decades, since these white Hindu swamis are veg, follow Hindu customs and are scholars of Hindu texts.
Those whites who follow Hindu customs usually get accepted.
Those who blame anti-white prejudice for failure to be accepted by Hindus, have to look deeper to see why and these have to do with other things than color.
@milkychai,
White people who have taken up Hindu culture are acccepted and respected. Thats why I was certain of your acceptance by the extended family.
Sister Nivedita, one of the founder members of the Ramakrishna mission was an Irish woman
The Mother at the Auroville Ashram was a white woman
And before Gandhi arrived on the scene, the President of the Indian Congress was Dr.Annie Besant, an Irish woman who became a veg and Theosophist ( quasi-Hindu ). Dr.Annie Besant was elected to the post by upper caste Hindus.
The irony was that a white woman was elected by Hindus to lead the anti-british freedom struggle ( when white women did not even have the vote in UK ). Dr.Annie Besant actually did a lot of hard work for the Indian freedom struggle and earned her post.
In India, there is a cultural organisation called Kalakshetra, which revived traditional Indian dance and music. You should buy their DVDs , culturally far superior to the Bollywood trash.
Kalakshetra was started by Rukmini Devi, a brahmin woman.
In 1920, she had a traditional sanskrit vedic marriage with a white british Theosophist ( veg ) George Arundale.
However, there is a vast cultural gap between average white norms and Hindu norms, and Hindus are not comfortable with the cultural gap.
@milkychai,
If you go to Shaadi.com, the Indian matrimonial website.
It sorts by language and caste and religion.
You will find supposedly casteless Sikhs, Christians and Muslims, all specifying caste.
Interestingly a few months ago, I saw an advertisement by a mid-level christian caste, specifying no untouchables and no brahmins.
The following is an excerpt from white christian missionaries about 300 years ago, on why White European Christians were disliked in India, and note, none of the reasons has to do with skin color, it has to do with behavior patterns.
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The most common reason given by Hindus of why they despised White Christians was that most White Christians led a very unclean life - slaughtering and eating cows and other animals, guzzling strong drinks, not washing after easing themselves, not brushing their teeth before or after meals, spitting around in their houses, mating with their wives in menses, etc. One correspondent was more forthright. The White Christians, he said, “beat and kill one another, swear, fornicate
"One of his uncles said "We are not like that, OK. We don't care what color you are, we are accepting."
Not quite true
You passed the no-black redline
If you had been black, the reception from the extended family would likely be quite different
There is a long story on Indian-black relationships that I cant write on an open blog.
Its amazing that you let this barani fellow continue to spout nonsense on your blog but block others from posting.
You should also update your blog, right now it is sadly lacking with posts only once a month. I am looking forward to hearing more inflammatory comments about my fellow Indians from you!
@milkychai - you wrote - "the rest of his family were sweet people!(with the exception of not interacting with the groom's family)" - They are neither sweet nor nasty, they welcomed you as you are within redlines and shunned the grooms family as they were meat eating lower castes and outside redlines.
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you wrote - "But then, all of our friends who are Americans married to desi's have positive stories" - Check how many of these friends are within redlines - How many muslim Americans? how many black Americans? how many of these friends have become veg or become Hindu or raised their kids Hindu? You simply have a crazy mother in law, the rest of the family has welcomed you as you are within redlines.
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you wrote - "had I not personally been treated poorly by my husbands family because of being Caucasian". - not True
- Only your crazy mother-in-law treated you poorly, the rest of the family welcomed you as you are within redlines, and one of the redlines is no-black and being white actually helped you.
In general upper castes ( as opposed to Indians in general ) look more caucasian. And caucasians in Indian dress look upper caste.
On youtube, there is series of Indian traditional dances like Bharatnatyam - Kuchipudi, by the Russian Elena Tarasova. This is entirely performed by Russian dancers wearing Indian dresses and the caucasian dancers in Indian dress look entirely upper caste.
The entire bollywood is made of upper castes who look caucasian.
Brahmin - Hema Malini, Sharmila Tagore, Madhuri Dixit, Manisha Koirala, Rani Mukherji.
Khatri -upper caste Punjabi - Kareena Kapoor, Karisma Kapoor, Priyanka Chopra
Bunt ( upper caste ) - Aishwarya Rai.
Yana Gupta is a European.
We are from the deepest part of south. India.. Kanya kumari, India. Can't get more south than that.
We are 100% dravidians.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/49625324@N00/5464573538/
How does it fit your stereotype Barani?
Manny
Ha! It's interesting to read an outsider's views on Indians and their superiority complexes about what part of India they're from. I'm a Northie, but never understood why South Indians were considered "ugly." Northies are still dark-skinned to other non-Indians anyway. Yes, I said it.
Manny from diaryofawhiteIndianhousewife.com? You would probably have a heart attack at milkychai saying that abuse and manipulation is the norm in Desi culture. After all, you got defensive at my same sentiments accusing me of "hating on Desi culture" on another blog
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